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	<title>Comments on: Tick, tock, tick, tock&#8230; BING</title>
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		<title>By: Chapter finished: A journey with technology &#171; dw2</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/tick-tock-tick-tock-bing/comment-page-1/#comment-20471</link>
		<dc:creator>Chapter finished: A journey with technology &#171; dw2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 May 2010 19:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] exponential trend within the computing industry. University of London researcher Shane Legg has published a chart of the increasing power of the world&#8217;s fastest supercomputers, from 1960 to the present day, along with a plausible extension to 2020. This chart measures the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] exponential trend within the computing industry. University of London researcher Shane Legg has published a chart of the increasing power of the world&#8217;s fastest supercomputers, from 1960 to the present day, along with a plausible extension to 2020. This chart measures the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Video: The case for Artificial General Intelligence &#171; dw2</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/tick-tock-tick-tock-bing/comment-page-1/#comment-20442</link>
		<dc:creator>Video: The case for Artificial General Intelligence &#171; dw2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Apr 2010 11:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=821#comment-20442</guid>
		<description>[...] This chart is from University of London researcher Shane Legg.Â  On a log-axis, it shows the exponentially increasing power of super-computers, all the way from 1960 to the present day and beyond.Â  It shows FLOPS â€“ the number of floating point operations per second that a computer can do.Â  It goes all the way from kiloflops through megaflops, gigaflops, teraflops, petaflops, and is pointing towards exaflops.Â  If this trend continues, weâ€™ll soon have supercomputers with at least as much computational power as a human brain.Â  Perhaps within less than 20 years. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This chart is from University of London researcher Shane Legg.Â  On a log-axis, it shows the exponentially increasing power of super-computers, all the way from 1960 to the present day and beyond.Â  It shows FLOPS â€“ the number of floating point operations per second that a computer can do.Â  It goes all the way from kiloflops through megaflops, gigaflops, teraflops, petaflops, and is pointing towards exaflops.Â  If this trend continues, weâ€™ll soon have supercomputers with at least as much computational power as a human brain.Â  Perhaps within less than 20 years. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Progress with AI &#171; dw2</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/tick-tock-tick-tock-bing/comment-page-1/#comment-20336</link>
		<dc:creator>Progress with AI &#171; dw2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 09:48:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=821#comment-20336</guid>
		<description>[...] There&#8217;s a good graph of improvements in supercomputer power stretching back to 1960 on Shane Legg&#8217;s website, along with associated [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] There&#8217;s a good graph of improvements in supercomputer power stretching back to 1960 on Shane Legg&#8217;s website, along with associated [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Shane Legg</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/tick-tock-tick-tock-bing/comment-page-1/#comment-20332</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane Legg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 09:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=821#comment-20332</guid>
		<description>@Aron

Energy (and heat) scale quadratically with frequency in a CPU.  Thus if you cut frequency by a factor of 10, and have 100 times as many cores, then you can get much better performance on fine grained parallel problems without increasing energy consumption.  This is the direction that GPUs are going in.  It also explains the low energy consumption of the brain: neurons fire at 100&#039;s of Hz, vs billions of Hz in a CPU.  Thus in terms of parallelism and energy consumption, the move towards GPU style computing is heading in the direction of more brain style computation.  Of course the degree to which a GPU does this is still many orders of magnitude away from the brain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Aron</p>
<p>Energy (and heat) scale quadratically with frequency in a CPU.  Thus if you cut frequency by a factor of 10, and have 100 times as many cores, then you can get much better performance on fine grained parallel problems without increasing energy consumption.  This is the direction that GPUs are going in.  It also explains the low energy consumption of the brain: neurons fire at 100&#8242;s of Hz, vs billions of Hz in a CPU.  Thus in terms of parallelism and energy consumption, the move towards GPU style computing is heading in the direction of more brain style computation.  Of course the degree to which a GPU does this is still many orders of magnitude away from the brain.</p>
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		<title>By: Aron</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/tick-tock-tick-tock-bing/comment-page-1/#comment-20331</link>
		<dc:creator>Aron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 04:23:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=821#comment-20331</guid>
		<description>samk&#039;s point is of interest to me. Any good links along those lines?

Our brain is doing all this on 30 watts. Are we gonna get there with process shrinkage? Something is fundamentally amiss about the hardware path we are going down with regard to the variety of computation likely needed for AGI.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>samk&#8217;s point is of interest to me. Any good links along those lines?</p>
<p>Our brain is doing all this on 30 watts. Are we gonna get there with process shrinkage? Something is fundamentally amiss about the hardware path we are going down with regard to the variety of computation likely needed for AGI.</p>
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		<title>By: Shane Legg</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/tick-tock-tick-tock-bing/comment-page-1/#comment-20315</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane Legg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 11:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=821#comment-20315</guid>
		<description>@Marco

Few AGI researchers spend time on the internet arguing - they are too busy doing things.  Most that I know have almost no internet presence, and don&#039;t mention AGI in their research papers either, for fear of being labelled a crank in academic circles where they work.  So keep in mind that people on things like the AGI list (which I don&#039;t read by the way) are a very particular subset of the area.

There is a large gap between the level of sketch you have provided and a convincing design for an AGI.  I think there are still some serious mountains to be climbed in the technical details of how some key parts of such a system would work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Marco</p>
<p>Few AGI researchers spend time on the internet arguing &#8211; they are too busy doing things.  Most that I know have almost no internet presence, and don&#8217;t mention AGI in their research papers either, for fear of being labelled a crank in academic circles where they work.  So keep in mind that people on things like the AGI list (which I don&#8217;t read by the way) are a very particular subset of the area.</p>
<p>There is a large gap between the level of sketch you have provided and a convincing design for an AGI.  I think there are still some serious mountains to be climbed in the technical details of how some key parts of such a system would work.</p>
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		<title>By: Marco Guardigli</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/tick-tock-tick-tock-bing/comment-page-1/#comment-20259</link>
		<dc:creator>Marco Guardigli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 00:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=821#comment-20259</guid>
		<description>I tried to define a list of steps that could be useful to speed up our way to AGI. 

Here it is: http://bit.ly/4yH0kG

AGI list members are currently debating about how AGI development could be funded. They are not agreeing on many aspects, and are involved in endless flame wars on the differences of each researcher approach (wasting way too much time in this fights). 

I am convinced that a distributed agent based approach to AGI could be funded by social network companies if some effective social game byproducts could give real value and generate interesting feedback. 

What do you think?

Marco ( @mgua on twitter )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tried to define a list of steps that could be useful to speed up our way to AGI. </p>
<p>Here it is: <a href="http://bit.ly/4yH0kG" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/4yH0kG</a></p>
<p>AGI list members are currently debating about how AGI development could be funded. They are not agreeing on many aspects, and are involved in endless flame wars on the differences of each researcher approach (wasting way too much time in this fights). </p>
<p>I am convinced that a distributed agent based approach to AGI could be funded by social network companies if some effective social game byproducts could give real value and generate interesting feedback. </p>
<p>What do you think?</p>
<p>Marco ( @mgua on twitter )</p>
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		<title>By: the Foresight Institute &#187; Is the brain a reasonable AGI design?</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/tick-tock-tick-tock-bing/comment-page-1/#comment-20248</link>
		<dc:creator>the Foresight Institute &#187; Is the brain a reasonable AGI design?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 13:03:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=821#comment-20248</guid>
		<description>[...] Legg seems to think so: Â Tick, tock, tick, tockâ€¦ BING. Having dealt with computation, now we get to the algorithm side of things. One of the big things [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Legg seems to think so: Â Tick, tock, tick, tockâ€¦ BING. Having dealt with computation, now we get to the algorithm side of things. One of the big things [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Tyler</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/tick-tock-tick-tock-bing/comment-page-1/#comment-20218</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 23:56:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=821#comment-20218</guid>
		<description>Sure.  I view technology as snowballing - with machines doing an increasing proportion of the work - including designing the next generation of machines:

http://alife.co.uk/essays/the_intelligence_explosion_is_happening_now/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure.  I view technology as snowballing &#8211; with machines doing an increasing proportion of the work &#8211; including designing the next generation of machines:</p>
<p><a href="http://alife.co.uk/essays/the_intelligence_explosion_is_happening_now/" rel="nofollow">http://alife.co.uk/essays/the_intelligence_explosion_is_happening_now/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Shane Legg</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/tick-tock-tick-tock-bing/comment-page-1/#comment-20217</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane Legg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 18:34:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=821#comment-20217</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t gone through the details as I didn&#039;t really care much for the result -- the problem is that what is permitted by the law of physics, and what we can actually manage to build, might be very very different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t gone through the details as I didn&#8217;t really care much for the result &#8212; the problem is that what is permitted by the law of physics, and what we can actually manage to build, might be very very different.</p>
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		<title>By: Shane Legg</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/tick-tock-tick-tock-bing/comment-page-1/#comment-20216</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane Legg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 18:28:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=821#comment-20216</guid>
		<description>Yes, very similar looking probability distributions.

I think one important factor that you don&#039;t discuss is how more computer power makes solving the AGI design problem easier.  Firstly, more powerful computers allow us to search larger spaces of programs looking for good algorithms.  Secondly, the algorithms we need to find can be less efficient, thus we are looking for an element in a larger subspace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, very similar looking probability distributions.</p>
<p>I think one important factor that you don&#8217;t discuss is how more computer power makes solving the AGI design problem easier.  Firstly, more powerful computers allow us to search larger spaces of programs looking for good algorithms.  Secondly, the algorithms we need to find can be less efficient, thus we are looking for an element in a larger subspace.</p>
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		<title>By: Shane Legg</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/tick-tock-tick-tock-bing/comment-page-1/#comment-20215</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane Legg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 18:16:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=821#comment-20215</guid>
		<description>As far as I know, and I&#039;m not a quantum physicist by any stretch, everything we know about maintaining quantum coherence says that this isn&#039;t going to work in a warm liquid environment like the body.  This is where all the current theory and evidence lies.

Is there any solid evidence, experiment or theoretical, to the contrary?   As far as I know, no.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as I know, and I&#8217;m not a quantum physicist by any stretch, everything we know about maintaining quantum coherence says that this isn&#8217;t going to work in a warm liquid environment like the body.  This is where all the current theory and evidence lies.</p>
<p>Is there any solid evidence, experiment or theoretical, to the contrary?   As far as I know, no.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Tyler</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/tick-tock-tick-tock-bing/comment-page-1/#comment-20214</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 13:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=821#comment-20214</guid>
		<description>If you look at my own estimate (dated Oct 2008), we appear to agree to the year:

http://alife.co.uk/essays/how_long_before_superintelligence/

See the probability density function at the bottom of the page.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you look at my own estimate (dated Oct 2008), we appear to agree to the year:</p>
<p><a href="http://alife.co.uk/essays/how_long_before_superintelligence/" rel="nofollow">http://alife.co.uk/essays/how_long_before_superintelligence/</a></p>
<p>See the probability density function at the bottom of the page.</p>
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		<title>By: samk</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/tick-tock-tick-tock-bing/comment-page-1/#comment-20213</link>
		<dc:creator>samk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 21:54:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=821#comment-20213</guid>
		<description>If the brain could compile some optimization problems into protein structures which it solves by (nonsimulated) annealing, you might need a few more orders of magnitude of compute power.  Does this seem any less ridiculous than the brain being a quantum computer?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the brain could compile some optimization problems into protein structures which it solves by (nonsimulated) annealing, you might need a few more orders of magnitude of compute power.  Does this seem any less ridiculous than the brain being a quantum computer?</p>
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		<title>By: Shane Legg</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/tick-tock-tick-tock-bing/comment-page-1/#comment-20212</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane Legg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 17:44:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=821#comment-20212</guid>
		<description>I wouldn&#039;t say that I&#039;ve had a lot, no, but I keep on bumping into it.  A few years ago some people tried to convince me that there was good cognitive science being done and sent me a few example papers... but once again I wasn&#039;t very impressed.  It usually seems shaky and speculative to me, almost like philosophy rather than science.  In my view the solid answers that are pushing us forward are coming from machine learning and neuroscience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wouldn&#8217;t say that I&#8217;ve had a lot, no, but I keep on bumping into it.  A few years ago some people tried to convince me that there was good cognitive science being done and sent me a few example papers&#8230; but once again I wasn&#8217;t very impressed.  It usually seems shaky and speculative to me, almost like philosophy rather than science.  In my view the solid answers that are pushing us forward are coming from machine learning and neuroscience.</p>
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