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	<title>Comments on: The Teenies</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-teenies/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-teenies/</link>
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		<title>By: gwern</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-teenies/comment-page-1/#comment-20597</link>
		<dc:creator>gwern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Dec 2010 23:36:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=873#comment-20597</guid>
		<description>Connectome prediction: http://predictionbook.com/predictions/1990</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Connectome prediction: <a href="http://predictionbook.com/predictions/1990" rel="nofollow">http://predictionbook.com/predictions/1990</a></p>
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		<title>By: gwern</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-teenies/comment-page-1/#comment-20595</link>
		<dc:creator>gwern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Dec 2010 23:30:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=873#comment-20595</guid>
		<description>Gaming PCs with expensive graphics cards: http://predictionbook.com/predictions/1989</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gaming PCs with expensive graphics cards: <a href="http://predictionbook.com/predictions/1989" rel="nofollow">http://predictionbook.com/predictions/1989</a></p>
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		<title>By: Goodbye 2010 &#124; vetta project</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-teenies/comment-page-1/#comment-20588</link>
		<dc:creator>Goodbye 2010 &#124; vetta project</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Dec 2010 18:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=873#comment-20588</guid>
		<description>[...] of all, my set of predictions for the teenies. We&#8217;re only 1 year in so it&#8217;s not surprising that I&#8217;m still pretty comfortable [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of all, my set of predictions for the teenies. We&#8217;re only 1 year in so it&#8217;s not surprising that I&#8217;m still pretty comfortable [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Shane Legg</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-teenies/comment-page-1/#comment-20355</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane Legg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:51:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=873#comment-20355</guid>
		<description>@Mitchell: I&#039;m not aiming to predict everything, I&#039;m just trying to make predictions where I think I can.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mitchell: I&#8217;m not aiming to predict everything, I&#8217;m just trying to make predictions where I think I can.</p>
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		<title>By: mitchell porter</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-teenies/comment-page-1/#comment-20354</link>
		<dc:creator>mitchell porter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 09:34:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=873#comment-20354</guid>
		<description>&quot;Iâ€™m predicting a bigger brighter expanded version of the last few years â€” nothing particularly radical.&quot;

That prediction never works. Or, maybe it works for the parts of the culture which aren&#039;t changing much, but there&#039;s always some big new thing. The 00s had the war on terror, the 90s had the Internet, the 80s had the end of Soviet communism, the 70s had the oil crisis, the 60s had their cultural revolution, the 50s had the nuclear arms race, the 40s had a world war...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Iâ€™m predicting a bigger brighter expanded version of the last few years â€” nothing particularly radical.&#8221;</p>
<p>That prediction never works. Or, maybe it works for the parts of the culture which aren&#8217;t changing much, but there&#8217;s always some big new thing. The 00s had the war on terror, the 90s had the Internet, the 80s had the end of Soviet communism, the 70s had the oil crisis, the 60s had their cultural revolution, the 50s had the nuclear arms race, the 40s had a world war&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Shane Legg</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-teenies/comment-page-1/#comment-20329</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane Legg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 09:17:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=873#comment-20329</guid>
		<description>@Mike

Yes, 3D has always been &quot;just around the corner&quot;.  This time I think it&#039;s really coming, albeit in a few more years.  One driving force is that cinemas are going 3D in a major way and so people are getting used to the idea.  Also you really need HD to do 3D, and of course that&#039;s big now with TVs.  Still, having to wear glasses to watch it is a pain, so my guess is that people will have their TV in normal mode and then just switch to 3D when they&#039;re really watching something like a sports match, movie or 3D game.

As for the computing demands, they don&#039;t change all that much.  The internal model of the game remains the same, the only difference is that the 3D graphics system has to now produce images from two points of view for the stereoscopic effect.  This doubles the demands on the graphics card, but that&#039;s it.

In 15-25 years I think we will have the hardware to simulate a system the size of the brain, however we won&#039;t be able to scan a brain in enough detail to make it work.  We&#039;ll have the overall wiring diagram for a brain, but we won&#039;t know many basic things like the strength of the synapses from that.  Of course, 25 years is a long time, and maybe much better scanning methods will come along.  But my guess is that we still won&#039;t be able to do it by then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mike</p>
<p>Yes, 3D has always been &#8220;just around the corner&#8221;.  This time I think it&#8217;s really coming, albeit in a few more years.  One driving force is that cinemas are going 3D in a major way and so people are getting used to the idea.  Also you really need HD to do 3D, and of course that&#8217;s big now with TVs.  Still, having to wear glasses to watch it is a pain, so my guess is that people will have their TV in normal mode and then just switch to 3D when they&#8217;re really watching something like a sports match, movie or 3D game.</p>
<p>As for the computing demands, they don&#8217;t change all that much.  The internal model of the game remains the same, the only difference is that the 3D graphics system has to now produce images from two points of view for the stereoscopic effect.  This doubles the demands on the graphics card, but that&#8217;s it.</p>
<p>In 15-25 years I think we will have the hardware to simulate a system the size of the brain, however we won&#8217;t be able to scan a brain in enough detail to make it work.  We&#8217;ll have the overall wiring diagram for a brain, but we won&#8217;t know many basic things like the strength of the synapses from that.  Of course, 25 years is a long time, and maybe much better scanning methods will come along.  But my guess is that we still won&#8217;t be able to do it by then.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevembuangga</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-teenies/comment-page-1/#comment-20328</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevembuangga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 07:40:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=873#comment-20328</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;however there will be diminishing returns to more computing power.&lt;/i&gt;

This is the &lt;b&gt;whole point&lt;/b&gt; about the Singularity: does the exponentiality of progress beats the &lt;a href=&quot;http://elizaphanian.blogspot.com/2008/02/collapse-of-complex-societies-joseph.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;decay in marginal returns&lt;/a&gt;?
I think not, energy wise (second law of thermodynamics) the bottom line is always negative, we squander &quot;gratuitous&quot; energy just for the fun of it.
But this doesn&#039;t mean we should not enjoy the fun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>however there will be diminishing returns to more computing power.</i></p>
<p>This is the <b>whole point</b> about the Singularity: does the exponentiality of progress beats the <a href="http://elizaphanian.blogspot.com/2008/02/collapse-of-complex-societies-joseph.html" rel="nofollow">decay in marginal returns</a>?<br />
I think not, energy wise (second law of thermodynamics) the bottom line is always negative, we squander &#8220;gratuitous&#8221; energy just for the fun of it.<br />
But this doesn&#8217;t mean we should not enjoy the fun.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-teenies/comment-page-1/#comment-20327</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 21:13:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=873#comment-20327</guid>
		<description>Your predictions seem fairly conservative for the most part and will probably be much more accurate than any Kurzweil will make.  

I think the cost for producing photo-realistic video games would be enormous.  Already games can be pretty expensive to develop.   The cycle for introducing new game systems is also taking longer now.  We  probably won&#039;t see a playstation 4 or xbox 720 for a while.  Maybe not until 2015 or later.  Even when they do come out, most companies may not take advantage of the computing capacity (due to expenses).  I don&#039;t necessarily believe there will be a market collapse for GPU&#039;s, however there will be diminishing returns to more computing power.

What about TV&#039;s coming to market that can be viewed in 3-dimensions without the need for glasses?  There are a bunch of companies that are working on this already.  A lot of this tech could fuel the need for more powerful graphics cards (or computational power) and hard drive capacity.  Perhaps the next generation of video games will take advantage of the 3-D TV&#039;s.  It doesn&#039;t seem improbable that you couldn&#039;t see these in the next 5 to 10 years.  Although it is true that 3-D TV&#039;s are something that have been &quot;just around the corner&quot; for decades.  However, people like James Cameron are pushing the technology (at least on the production side), so it may be more likely to happen.

I think it is probable that we could get a connectome of the human brain within 4 to 7 years.  A connectome is only part of the story, however.  Henry Markram believes a whole brain simulation is possible to do within 10 years, but 10 to 20 years seems more likely to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your predictions seem fairly conservative for the most part and will probably be much more accurate than any Kurzweil will make.  </p>
<p>I think the cost for producing photo-realistic video games would be enormous.  Already games can be pretty expensive to develop.   The cycle for introducing new game systems is also taking longer now.  We  probably won&#8217;t see a playstation 4 or xbox 720 for a while.  Maybe not until 2015 or later.  Even when they do come out, most companies may not take advantage of the computing capacity (due to expenses).  I don&#8217;t necessarily believe there will be a market collapse for GPU&#8217;s, however there will be diminishing returns to more computing power.</p>
<p>What about TV&#8217;s coming to market that can be viewed in 3-dimensions without the need for glasses?  There are a bunch of companies that are working on this already.  A lot of this tech could fuel the need for more powerful graphics cards (or computational power) and hard drive capacity.  Perhaps the next generation of video games will take advantage of the 3-D TV&#8217;s.  It doesn&#8217;t seem improbable that you couldn&#8217;t see these in the next 5 to 10 years.  Although it is true that 3-D TV&#8217;s are something that have been &#8220;just around the corner&#8221; for decades.  However, people like James Cameron are pushing the technology (at least on the production side), so it may be more likely to happen.</p>
<p>I think it is probable that we could get a connectome of the human brain within 4 to 7 years.  A connectome is only part of the story, however.  Henry Markram believes a whole brain simulation is possible to do within 10 years, but 10 to 20 years seems more likely to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Shane Legg</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-teenies/comment-page-1/#comment-20319</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane Legg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 09:33:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=873#comment-20319</guid>
		<description>@David: I agree that photorealism requires more than 10x current high end graphics cards.  My question is whether people will care enough to pay.

Consider sound: most people can hear the difference between uncompressed music and the mp3 quality you typically get from downloaded music.  Yet the difference is small enough that the vast majority of people don&#039;t care.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@David: I agree that photorealism requires more than 10x current high end graphics cards.  My question is whether people will care enough to pay.</p>
<p>Consider sound: most people can hear the difference between uncompressed music and the mp3 quality you typically get from downloaded music.  Yet the difference is small enough that the vast majority of people don&#8217;t care.</p>
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		<title>By: david</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-teenies/comment-page-1/#comment-20318</link>
		<dc:creator>david</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 02:06:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=873#comment-20318</guid>
		<description>Realtime photorealism (im talking indistinguishable from photograph) of complex scenes is far far more than 10x today&#039;s performance. Until that point I dont see any collapse, but what I do think is that gpu&#039;s and cpu&#039;s will have merged before that so the consideration may not even apply.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Realtime photorealism (im talking indistinguishable from photograph) of complex scenes is far far more than 10x today&#8217;s performance. Until that point I dont see any collapse, but what I do think is that gpu&#8217;s and cpu&#8217;s will have merged before that so the consideration may not even apply.</p>
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		<title>By: Shane Legg</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-teenies/comment-page-1/#comment-20316</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane Legg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 11:40:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=873#comment-20316</guid>
		<description>@Roberto

Machine translation and face recognition are difficult things to make predictions about.  Currently computers can do these things quite well, but not nearly perfectly.  To eliminate the remaining few percent of errors would seem to require a major breakthrough.  For example, near perfect translation would require the computer to understand the nature of the the world.  In other words, we may not truly solve these problems until we have something quite close to AGI.  Before this point, for most tasks trained humans are cheaper, more reliable and more accurate.

My guess is that machine translation and face recognition will improve and increase in usage, but their application will remain limited to certain situations where errors aren&#039;t very important.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Roberto</p>
<p>Machine translation and face recognition are difficult things to make predictions about.  Currently computers can do these things quite well, but not nearly perfectly.  To eliminate the remaining few percent of errors would seem to require a major breakthrough.  For example, near perfect translation would require the computer to understand the nature of the the world.  In other words, we may not truly solve these problems until we have something quite close to AGI.  Before this point, for most tasks trained humans are cheaper, more reliable and more accurate.</p>
<p>My guess is that machine translation and face recognition will improve and increase in usage, but their application will remain limited to certain situations where errors aren&#8217;t very important.</p>
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		<title>By: Shane Legg</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-teenies/comment-page-1/#comment-20311</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane Legg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 23:35:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=873#comment-20311</guid>
		<description>@ Roko

I didn&#039;t predict anything bio because I don&#039;t feel that I know it well enough to predict anything about it (in case that wasn&#039;t clear).

Bio fuels already do work in Brazil.

Yeah, 3D head glasses would be a big deal, and they might happen.  But it&#039;s one of those things that seems obvious but years and years go by and they don&#039;t improve much.  If they do take off, then 3D graphics might have some more life.  Otherwise I think it will show significant diminishing value at 10x current high end levels of performance.

Your bet doesn&#039;t really reflect my prediction: the market can collapse and there still be these graphics cards in high end gaming PCs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Roko</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t predict anything bio because I don&#8217;t feel that I know it well enough to predict anything about it (in case that wasn&#8217;t clear).</p>
<p>Bio fuels already do work in Brazil.</p>
<p>Yeah, 3D head glasses would be a big deal, and they might happen.  But it&#8217;s one of those things that seems obvious but years and years go by and they don&#8217;t improve much.  If they do take off, then 3D graphics might have some more life.  Otherwise I think it will show significant diminishing value at 10x current high end levels of performance.</p>
<p>Your bet doesn&#8217;t really reflect my prediction: the market can collapse and there still be these graphics cards in high end gaming PCs.</p>
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		<title>By: roberto</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-teenies/comment-page-1/#comment-20310</link>
		<dc:creator>roberto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 20:29:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=873#comment-20310</guid>
		<description>I think machine translation and face recognition can have quite a strong impact on the next decade.

I also predict a sudden rise of wellness, anti-aging and personalized medicine clinics.

The biggest short term life changing innovation is easy to predict and it&#039;s already happening: Internet via wi-fi or cellular network everywhere and all people carring a super smartphone every time. This can bring a sudden rise of collective intelligence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think machine translation and face recognition can have quite a strong impact on the next decade.</p>
<p>I also predict a sudden rise of wellness, anti-aging and personalized medicine clinics.</p>
<p>The biggest short term life changing innovation is easy to predict and it&#8217;s already happening: Internet via wi-fi or cellular network everywhere and all people carring a super smartphone every time. This can bring a sudden rise of collective intelligence.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevembuangga</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-teenies/comment-page-1/#comment-20309</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevembuangga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jan 2010 20:07:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=873#comment-20309</guid>
		<description>As of predictions I just stumbled upon this one:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/05/21/bays-conjecture/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Singularity will not be what you think!&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As of predictions I just stumbled upon this one:<br />
<a href="http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/05/21/bays-conjecture/" rel="nofollow">The Singularity will not be what you think!</a></p>
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		<title>By: Aki_Izayoi</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-teenies/comment-page-1/#comment-20307</link>
		<dc:creator>Aki_Izayoi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jan 2010 10:09:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=873#comment-20307</guid>
		<description>Doesn&#039;t Crysis have photo-realistic graphics on its highest setting?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doesn&#8217;t Crysis have photo-realistic graphics on its highest setting?</p>
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