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	<title>Comments on: The Noughties</title>
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		<title>By: Shane Legg</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-noughties/comment-page-1/#comment-20258</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane Legg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Dec 2009 13:14:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=847#comment-20258</guid>
		<description>@ Kevembuangga: I was bored of it and felt that it had too much unnecessary crap.  I wanted to move the focus to the content, and a bare bones style achieves that.  I would prefer a more advanced comments system, however.  Though even with that, I can see advantages to having a bare bones comments system: I&#039;ve come to the conclusion that blog comments aren&#039;t a good place to have extended discussions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Kevembuangga: I was bored of it and felt that it had too much unnecessary crap.  I wanted to move the focus to the content, and a bare bones style achieves that.  I would prefer a more advanced comments system, however.  Though even with that, I can see advantages to having a bare bones comments system: I&#8217;ve come to the conclusion that blog comments aren&#8217;t a good place to have extended discussions.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevembuangga</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-noughties/comment-page-1/#comment-20257</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevembuangga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Dec 2009 12:50:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=847#comment-20257</guid>
		<description>The new site design is a bit too &quot;bare bones&quot;, what was wrong with the old one?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The new site design is a bit too &#8220;bare bones&#8221;, what was wrong with the old one?</p>
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		<title>By: Shane Legg</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-noughties/comment-page-1/#comment-20256</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane Legg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Dec 2009 10:40:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=847#comment-20256</guid>
		<description>@ Michael.

Regarding global warming: I&#039;m not seeing the panic.  The general vibe I&#039;m picking up in the UK from things like newspapers is that it could be a big problem, but nobody really seems to understand what&#039;s going on and some suspect it&#039;s a scam.  Companies are in on it in order to be politically correct, but the average person on the street is only mildly concerned as far as I can tell.

Regarding &quot;new&quot; technologies: most of the publicly visible change hasn&#039;t been about new technology, but rather the maturation of existing technology.   I think this is often the case.  For example, the internet wasn&#039;t new technology in the 1990&#039;s.  In terms of fundamental technological change, I think the story of the 2000&#039;s was the fact that the price of computation (assuming you&#039;re willing to compute in parallel), and the price per bit of communication, has continued to fall exponentially.  It was on the back of this that things like Youtube became possible.  Youtube itself required almost no innovation at all.

Regarding the longer term rate of change:  I think the amount of change seen this decade has been roughly typical of the last century.  We haven&#039;t had any really stand out events like moon landings or nuclear weapons, though.  

Regarding the next decade: I don&#039;t expect more change in the next decade, I&#039;m actually suspecting that we might see less, at least in terms of visible change.    Sort of a continued maturation of all things internet and mobile.  The fundamental change I&#039;m expected is a broader understanding of the brain, better machine learning algorithms, and continued exponential growth in computer power.  However I think we need at the least 10 years, and maybe 20 years of progress in these areas before their significance starts to become publicly visible.

I look forward to seeing your decade predictions on lesswrong.  I&#039;m trying to come up with some myself, but I&#039;m finding it pretty hard going as the changes that interest me still look more than a decade out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Michael.</p>
<p>Regarding global warming: I&#8217;m not seeing the panic.  The general vibe I&#8217;m picking up in the UK from things like newspapers is that it could be a big problem, but nobody really seems to understand what&#8217;s going on and some suspect it&#8217;s a scam.  Companies are in on it in order to be politically correct, but the average person on the street is only mildly concerned as far as I can tell.</p>
<p>Regarding &#8220;new&#8221; technologies: most of the publicly visible change hasn&#8217;t been about new technology, but rather the maturation of existing technology.   I think this is often the case.  For example, the internet wasn&#8217;t new technology in the 1990&#8242;s.  In terms of fundamental technological change, I think the story of the 2000&#8242;s was the fact that the price of computation (assuming you&#8217;re willing to compute in parallel), and the price per bit of communication, has continued to fall exponentially.  It was on the back of this that things like Youtube became possible.  Youtube itself required almost no innovation at all.</p>
<p>Regarding the longer term rate of change:  I think the amount of change seen this decade has been roughly typical of the last century.  We haven&#8217;t had any really stand out events like moon landings or nuclear weapons, though.  </p>
<p>Regarding the next decade: I don&#8217;t expect more change in the next decade, I&#8217;m actually suspecting that we might see less, at least in terms of visible change.    Sort of a continued maturation of all things internet and mobile.  The fundamental change I&#8217;m expected is a broader understanding of the brain, better machine learning algorithms, and continued exponential growth in computer power.  However I think we need at the least 10 years, and maybe 20 years of progress in these areas before their significance starts to become publicly visible.</p>
<p>I look forward to seeing your decade predictions on lesswrong.  I&#8217;m trying to come up with some myself, but I&#8217;m finding it pretty hard going as the changes that interest me still look more than a decade out.</p>
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		<title>By: michael vassar</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-noughties/comment-page-1/#comment-20255</link>
		<dc:creator>michael vassar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Dec 2009 01:52:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=847#comment-20255</guid>
		<description>I would say that global warming went from mainstream issue to mainstream panic, not from fringe to mainstream, and that Katrina and the desire to exalt Gore were the main causes of that.  In tech, I agree with everything said, but I still think that the spread to ubiquity of cell phones world wide was the big news of the decade, not any of the new technologies.  I&#039;d also say that the improvements in Google search in the first half of the decade were a bigger deal than any &#039;new&#039; technology and that all-in-all it was the least technologically innovative decade in a century and a half, and very plausibly the decade with the least change of any sort.  I expect much more from the next decade.  

I&#039;m pretty sure Obama was a rare event.  I would have put it even lower than 1%.  

I&#039;ll probably make some predictions on www.lesswrong.com.  In general I have found that people who made predictions on the long bets web page haven&#039;t actually taken me up on the bets when challenged.  

I think that Roko is being overconfident, as arguments for SL4 positions were presented to him more thoroughly than to most people and he isn&#039;t accounting for this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would say that global warming went from mainstream issue to mainstream panic, not from fringe to mainstream, and that Katrina and the desire to exalt Gore were the main causes of that.  In tech, I agree with everything said, but I still think that the spread to ubiquity of cell phones world wide was the big news of the decade, not any of the new technologies.  I&#8217;d also say that the improvements in Google search in the first half of the decade were a bigger deal than any &#8216;new&#8217; technology and that all-in-all it was the least technologically innovative decade in a century and a half, and very plausibly the decade with the least change of any sort.  I expect much more from the next decade.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m pretty sure Obama was a rare event.  I would have put it even lower than 1%.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll probably make some predictions on <a href="http://www.lesswrong.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.lesswrong.com</a>.  In general I have found that people who made predictions on the long bets web page haven&#8217;t actually taken me up on the bets when challenged.  </p>
<p>I think that Roko is being overconfident, as arguments for SL4 positions were presented to him more thoroughly than to most people and he isn&#8217;t accounting for this.</p>
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		<title>By: Shane Legg</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-noughties/comment-page-1/#comment-20254</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane Legg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 23:09:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=847#comment-20254</guid>
		<description>Pre-Enlightenment thinking was a total flop.  Sickness was caused by evil spirits rather than things like viruses.  Mythical beasts dragged the sun across the sky.  The world was only a few thousand years old.  It could hardly have been more wrong about more things if it tried.

As a lowly post doctoral student, calling me a &quot;high priest&quot; of anything is a bit of an exaggeration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pre-Enlightenment thinking was a total flop.  Sickness was caused by evil spirits rather than things like viruses.  Mythical beasts dragged the sun across the sky.  The world was only a few thousand years old.  It could hardly have been more wrong about more things if it tried.</p>
<p>As a lowly post doctoral student, calling me a &#8220;high priest&#8221; of anything is a bit of an exaggeration.</p>
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		<title>By: Julian Morrison</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-noughties/comment-page-1/#comment-20253</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian Morrison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 22:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=847#comment-20253</guid>
		<description>Mr &quot;I just typed about the failure of science on a device operating by quantum principles&quot;, I find your argument unconvincing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr &#8220;I just typed about the failure of science on a device operating by quantum principles&#8221;, I find your argument unconvincing.</p>
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		<title>By: Julian Morrison</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-noughties/comment-page-1/#comment-20252</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian Morrison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 22:33:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=847#comment-20252</guid>
		<description>Roko, you know better than to reverse stupidity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roko, you know better than to reverse stupidity.</p>
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		<title>By: Julian Morrison</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-noughties/comment-page-1/#comment-20251</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian Morrison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 22:26:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=847#comment-20251</guid>
		<description>You were mis-calibrated about Obama but mainly due to not seeing the shape of the change - everything looks linear in the short term. Of course Obama was boosted by the Bush polarization (Dems didn&#039;t dare pick an unadventurous candidate lest they lose the angry base), by his opponents (the Rep base forced &quot;howling mad&quot; Palin on McCain, ruining his centrist credentials) - but mostly, he won because he&#039;s Obama, a genius at fast political climbing. So I think he&#039;s probably &quot;ahead of the curve&quot;.

We shall call the next decade: &quot;prelude to singularity&quot; ;-P

What we&#039;ll see in the next decade: the rise of India, the over-reach and fall back of China. Ubiquitous mobile internet. Dominance of the smartphone format. Mobile carriers forced (by Google?) to become neutral data pipes. Hot war for control of free speech and copyright on the internet. Ebooks obliterate paper books at retail. Transhumanism enters mainstream culture. Augmented reality gets big for games and information. The first driverless cars appear on roads. Electric cars start their rise. Key-words: mobile, ubiquitous, data.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You were mis-calibrated about Obama but mainly due to not seeing the shape of the change &#8211; everything looks linear in the short term. Of course Obama was boosted by the Bush polarization (Dems didn&#8217;t dare pick an unadventurous candidate lest they lose the angry base), by his opponents (the Rep base forced &#8220;howling mad&#8221; Palin on McCain, ruining his centrist credentials) &#8211; but mostly, he won because he&#8217;s Obama, a genius at fast political climbing. So I think he&#8217;s probably &#8220;ahead of the curve&#8221;.</p>
<p>We shall call the next decade: &#8220;prelude to singularity&#8221; ;-P</p>
<p>What we&#8217;ll see in the next decade: the rise of India, the over-reach and fall back of China. Ubiquitous mobile internet. Dominance of the smartphone format. Mobile carriers forced (by Google?) to become neutral data pipes. Hot war for control of free speech and copyright on the internet. Ebooks obliterate paper books at retail. Transhumanism enters mainstream culture. Augmented reality gets big for games and information. The first driverless cars appear on roads. Electric cars start their rise. Key-words: mobile, ubiquitous, data.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevembuangga</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-noughties/comment-page-1/#comment-20250</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevembuangga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 18:11:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=847#comment-20250</guid>
		<description>Bwahahahaha!

I am &lt;b&gt;not&lt;/b&gt; a Singularitarian nor really &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.kevembuangga.com/blog/news.php?item.5&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;that enthusiastic&lt;/a&gt; about unfettered AGI but deriding the &lt;i&gt;high priests of the techno-paradigm&lt;/i&gt; while calling for &lt;i&gt;a flowering of pre-Enlightenment systems of belief such as has not been seen since the days of the mystery religions of the ancient world&lt;/i&gt; is the pot calling the kettle black and even beyond.

There is no doubt that for people confronted with mysterious technologies there will be some kind of &quot;spiritual renaissance&quot; but &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven&#039;s_Gate_(religious_group)&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;we&#039;ve seen that before...&lt;/a&gt;

There are serious critics of &lt;a href=&quot;http://resourceinsights.blogspot.com/2009/12/technology-will-save-usor-not.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;techno optimism&lt;/a&gt; but even the &lt;a href=&quot;http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/2009/12/political-ecology-of-collapse-part.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;spiritually inclined&quot;&lt;/a&gt; look nothing like your demented blog, a &lt;i&gt;shockwave&lt;/i&gt;, yeah! a &lt;i&gt;tsunami&lt;/i&gt;... of stupidity.

There are indeed true believers in the Singularity who see your apocalyptic eschatology as possible and desirable, you are just the mirror image of theses nutcases.

As for being eager to create &lt;i&gt;&quot;machines who surpass themselves&quot;&lt;/i&gt; haven&#039;t you noticed that &lt;b&gt;every&lt;/b&gt; machine created so far (beyond plain hand tools) does surpass man in some respect?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bwahahahaha!</p>
<p>I am <b>not</b> a Singularitarian nor really <a href="http://www.kevembuangga.com/blog/news.php?item.5" rel="nofollow">that enthusiastic</a> about unfettered AGI but deriding the <i>high priests of the techno-paradigm</i> while calling for <i>a flowering of pre-Enlightenment systems of belief such as has not been seen since the days of the mystery religions of the ancient world</i> is the pot calling the kettle black and even beyond.</p>
<p>There is no doubt that for people confronted with mysterious technologies there will be some kind of &#8220;spiritual renaissance&#8221; but <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven's_Gate_(religious_group)" rel="nofollow">we&#8217;ve seen that before&#8230;</a></p>
<p>There are serious critics of <a href="http://resourceinsights.blogspot.com/2009/12/technology-will-save-usor-not.html" rel="nofollow">techno optimism</a> but even the <a href="http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/2009/12/political-ecology-of-collapse-part.html" rel="nofollow">&#8220;spiritually inclined&#8221;</a> look nothing like your demented blog, a <i>shockwave</i>, yeah! a <i>tsunami</i>&#8230; of stupidity.</p>
<p>There are indeed true believers in the Singularity who see your apocalyptic eschatology as possible and desirable, you are just the mirror image of theses nutcases.</p>
<p>As for being eager to create <i>&#8220;machines who surpass themselves&#8221;</i> haven&#8217;t you noticed that <b>every</b> machine created so far (beyond plain hand tools) does surpass man in some respect?</p>
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		<title>By: Sean Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-noughties/comment-page-1/#comment-20249</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 17:00:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=847#comment-20249</guid>
		<description>I boldly predict that the cataclysmic decade ahead of us will see science, technology and the religion of progress fall out of favor among the masses in the industrialized world as the vast global failure of this paradigm becomes self-evident.  This may result in a kind of spiritual renaissance as humans begin to rediscover the incredible power of their minds and give up on the suicidal fantasy of creating machines who surpass themselves.  Look for a flowering of pre-Enlightenment systems of belief such as has not been seen since the days of the mystery religions of the ancient world.  We may see the beginnings of a &quot;Butlerian Jihad&quot;, and certainly the hysteria around 2012 will reach a fever peak amidst global chaos and collapse.  My advice to all of you very bright people is to develop a plan B for when this materialistic paradigm crashes and burns, because I&#039;m afraid that day maybe be closer than you think.  As the high priests of the techno-paradigm, you should at least be aware that your project to build a material God in the form of AI may not be long for this world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I boldly predict that the cataclysmic decade ahead of us will see science, technology and the religion of progress fall out of favor among the masses in the industrialized world as the vast global failure of this paradigm becomes self-evident.  This may result in a kind of spiritual renaissance as humans begin to rediscover the incredible power of their minds and give up on the suicidal fantasy of creating machines who surpass themselves.  Look for a flowering of pre-Enlightenment systems of belief such as has not been seen since the days of the mystery religions of the ancient world.  We may see the beginnings of a &#8220;Butlerian Jihad&#8221;, and certainly the hysteria around 2012 will reach a fever peak amidst global chaos and collapse.  My advice to all of you very bright people is to develop a plan B for when this materialistic paradigm crashes and burns, because I&#8217;m afraid that day maybe be closer than you think.  As the high priests of the techno-paradigm, you should at least be aware that your project to build a material God in the form of AI may not be long for this world.</p>
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		<title>By: Shane Legg</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-noughties/comment-page-1/#comment-20246</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane Legg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 13:00:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=847#comment-20246</guid>
		<description>@Roko

Some predictions for 2015 would be good too, or even earlier...  then you won&#039;t have to wait a decade to get some data points.

Be warned: it&#039;s hard coming up with objectively measurable predictions.  At least, I&#039;m finding it hard!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Roko</p>
<p>Some predictions for 2015 would be good too, or even earlier&#8230;  then you won&#8217;t have to wait a decade to get some data points.</p>
<p>Be warned: it&#8217;s hard coming up with objectively measurable predictions.  At least, I&#8217;m finding it hard!</p>
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		<title>By: Roko</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-noughties/comment-page-1/#comment-20245</link>
		<dc:creator>Roko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 20:45:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=847#comment-20245</guid>
		<description>@Shane: 

Interesting point. I could make a wide variety of 2020 predictions and then, in 2020, judge the accuracy and calibration of my predictions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Shane: </p>
<p>Interesting point. I could make a wide variety of 2020 predictions and then, in 2020, judge the accuracy and calibration of my predictions.</p>
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		<title>By: Roko</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-noughties/comment-page-1/#comment-20244</link>
		<dc:creator>Roko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 23:21:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=847#comment-20244</guid>
		<description>Being in the majority of humans - who believe in life after death and an anthropomorphic father-like deity is not a positive sign either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Being in the majority of humans &#8211; who believe in life after death and an anthropomorphic father-like deity is not a positive sign either.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Tyler</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-noughties/comment-page-1/#comment-20243</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 19:01:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=847#comment-20243</guid>
		<description>From the above URL:

&quot;SL4s believe that the creation of qualitatively smarter-than-human intelligence could result in discontinuous levels of progress.&quot;

That is rather vague - but also pretty nutty sounding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the above URL:</p>
<p>&#8220;SL4s believe that the creation of qualitatively smarter-than-human intelligence could result in discontinuous levels of progress.&#8221;</p>
<p>That is rather vague &#8211; but also pretty nutty sounding.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Tyler</title>
		<link>http://www.vetta.org/2009/12/the-noughties/comment-page-1/#comment-20242</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 12:38:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.vetta.org/?p=847#comment-20242</guid>
		<description>The dominant social network has changed before - but one would expect a substantial lock-in effect - since they have people&#039;s data, offer few &quot;export&quot; options, and are in a winner-take-all space.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The dominant social network has changed before &#8211; but one would expect a substantial lock-in effect &#8211; since they have people&#8217;s data, offer few &#8220;export&#8221; options, and are in a winner-take-all space.</p>
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